TT Racing Minds And The Calm Inside 200 mph with Spartacus 🇮🇲

200 miles an hour is loud, violent, and unforgiving, yet the best riders describe it as calm. We sit down with Isle of Man TT racer Marcus “Spartacus” Simpson and let him talk us through the Mountain Course the way he actually rides it: markers, gears, blind crests, jumps, cambers, and the kind of decisions that happen before you even arrive at the corner. Listening to a TT racer narrate a full lap from inside a car makes one thing painfully clear: what looks like chaos on video is often methodical precision built on repetition.

Along the way, we get practical about riding and racing technique. Spartacus explains why the neutral zone (no throttle, no brake) makes the bike vague, why steady inputs keep stability on bumpy high-speed sections, and how breathing and heart-rate control can be the difference between smooth and blown apart. We also talk about the reality behind the highlight reels: normal jobs in the off-season, sponsorship that rarely means a salary, and why the TT still pulls people back even when the risks are obvious.

We wrap with community news and route planning for the ADV Cannonball Rally. There’s an update on scooter cannonball uncertainty and what modernization could look like, plus a rideout recommendation for Hurricane Ridge and Obstruction Point. Then we get into the big announcement: the 2027 Baja Edition moves fully to the USA, and the 2027 America rally goes Portland to Portland, from Maine to Oregon, with a mix of mud, slab days, mountain roads, and optional backcountry challenges.

Subscribe for more two-wheeled nonsense, share this with a rider who loves corner strategy, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What part of the TT story hits you hardest: the technique, the risk, or the sacrifice?

Transcript

Welcome And What’s Ahead

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the ABV Cannonball Podcast. Where we discuss all things on two wheels, the adventure by cannonball and other motorcycle-related nonsense.

SPEAKER_06 0:24

Season five, episode three. Welcome to Adventure Cannonball Podcast. I am your host, Taylor Lawson, and today I am joined by the Baron of Boundary Pushing, Blistered Butts, and Beeline Blunders. Better known to you as Aaron Pufal. Aaron, welcome. What's up, bud?

SPEAKER_07 0:44

Thanks for having me. Thanks for taking the time away from your boat repairs to join us here on the air. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

You know, every now and then you gotta you know step away from the passion project.

SPEAKER_07 0:55

Yeah. What do we got coming up today?

SPEAKER_06 0:57

Coming up in this episode, we will discuss the decision behind moving the Baja Edition entirely to the USA. An interview with Spartacus, a TT racer, and your tour guide around the TT course in an Audi A6, I believe. I could stand corrected there, but I know it was an Audi. Number three, we're going to cover the uh TT top three standings in the Isle of Man as it just wrapped up on the 7th of June. I think that was last Sunday. Uh we'll do a little bit of Aaron's rideouts and we'll cover some ADV cannonball news.

SPEAKER_07 1:30

Nice, bud.

Drinks Ritual And Quick Catch-Up

SPEAKER_07 1:31

Hey, uh, first of all, we can't break tradition. Can't break it. Where are you? What are you drinking? Let's hear you open something epic.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

I am in the Stockholm studio, and I am drinking. Oh, this we need we need Stuart Barker to do the introduction on this because it is the hashtag Deepa double IPA, which is the mighty double IPA from Beer City, which is explosively aromatic, fresh, and fruity.

SPEAKER_07 1:59

Nice one, Stuart, legend. Oh yeah. How about you? Nice. I've got myself a bail breaker IPA from Washington. Cheers, bud. Thanks for doing this. Nice.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Cheers to it. And to our listeners, this would be a good time if you want to grab one, a beer that is. Better to have one in the hand than two in the fridge.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

So you're so wise beyond your years. I love it.

SPEAKER_06 2:32

I know, I know. It's amazing. Hey, let's talk about wise. Here's something wise to talk about.

Rally App Basics And Dedicated Phones

SPEAKER_06 2:37

Carrie's Round Table. I thought it was great. I wanted to ask you, because I listened to this, Bian Federic, they had uh come, they had recorded that, and then we saw them in Denmark. And then, and I didn't, you know, of course, in sitting and talking with him, I didn't really have an opportunity to listen and repeat, have him repeat everything he said when he was on the podcast. But what he did say is that he wanted to get some advice on from you on how to use the ADV rally app. How did that lesson go?

SPEAKER_07 3:05

Yeah, it's really, really easy. After he downloaded the app, I just took his phone, I punched in the token that we were using to check the checkpoints in Denmark. And he was really nice. He actually checked all the checkpoints with Robert on the beach, which is something that you know my old fat ass isn't going to do. So the test began with putting in a token, pressing log in, and then ended because there's nothing for a rally goer to do except for take the phone, stick it on your handlebars of your of your bike, make sure it's always charging, and then make sure it's always open. And that's it. That is the length and breadth of user interface with the checkpoint rally app.

SPEAKER_06 3:52

Let me ask Aaron. I'm just gonna play devil's advocate here. I'm actually gonna play as if I really know nothing. And I'm gonna ask you this question. Do I need to have a dedicated phone for this?

SPEAKER_07 4:02

Absolutely, please. Absolutely. Uh, you know, it's always the guy who thinks he's a smart ass who wants to run the app in the background that closes it by accident. Or, you know, he has one phone and he's navigating with it and it's, you know, there's an issue. Just have the separate phone, guys. You know, it's just you put all this time and money into doing this rally. You know, we're not charging you a thousand dollars to rent a piece of hardware like in Dakar or Baja 1000. This is a great, elegant solution, and please just have just have a separate phone.

Secret Cannonball Attempt Tease

SPEAKER_07 4:41

But um, yeah, I wanted to mention that I am preparing for a secret cannonball attempt in two weeks.

SPEAKER_06 4:50

Woohoo! So uh thanks to all those supporting with that paramount effort. Yeah. Excited to hear more about that. You're gonna get some video clips of this whole thing happening, right?

SPEAKER_07 5:00

Yeah, we're gonna get some video. We're gonna try. I'm not exactly a YouTuber, but we'll put some stuff in social media in real time as we're doing this official attempt.

Scooter Cannonball Liability And Future

SPEAKER_06 5:10

So I want to ask you, we'll shift gears here and talk a second about the scooter cannonball. So we recently got news in the uh the 2025 rider chat that the scooter cannonball either wasn't happening or something happened there which made you call the organizer to get the skinny on that. Can you talk a bit about that?

SPEAKER_07 5:29

Yeah, we've had David on the podcast. He's a delightful dude. Yeah, of course. And he does a great job at organizing a scooter cannonball. It's done in a classic kind of traditional way where how do I say riders ride to one or two waypoints and they take pictures of them and they submit them with an app. So it's done in a traditional way. There's a whole bunch of people involved in the infrastructure. And I think uh I think they had a fatality last year. And I think the biggest concern with the volunteers, and you know, and David, of course, and rightfully so, was I think that trying to do it in in uh, you know, they're kind of associated with the Brock Yates estate and things like that. So his major concern was liability and insurance, which is understandable. So he's not sure if he's going to continue in the same spirit, the same organizational framework. So I had offered to simply take it over, and there's some resistance to that, which is understandable, putting it into my framework. I could just literally drop it into my framework and use our app and use the way we organize it with our waivers and our and our and our protections. Um, and there was some resistance to that. So basically, what I told him, the conclusion of the conversation is is that I won't let it go away, right? So if he doesn't organize something by, let's say, the end of the 2026 rally, ADV Cannonball rally, at that point, then I'll just announce a version of our rally that you know is is is for scooters exclusively. But the rules will change. It will be streamlined, it will be uh scored in the same way that the the the cannonball, the ADV Cannonball rally is scored. So there will be some changes because it has to be modernized. We can't have people standing on street corners, we can't have people reviewing pictures. It has to be done in in in the streamlined, autonomous way. So, anyways, the offer is there. If it simply just goes away, then we'll pick up the mantle. But if it continues, then of course we will support David and and all and all those who participate in that in that epic event.

SPEAKER_06 7:47

Yeah, I think that's that's really great. I did want to pick up one thing you said about people standing on street corners, and I think that that's been happening for a lot of years, and no matter what you do, people will still stand on street corners.

SPEAKER_07 7:56

Yes. You can't you can't stop that for some reason.

SPEAKER_06 7:59

I think it happens, it just keeps happening over and over again. Yeah. So wrong.

Heat Waves Air Conditioning And Reviews

SPEAKER_06 8:09

Yeah, I I was um I was bonking around on the internet. Sometimes I do that. I was looking up a uh so when we were in yachting, I had a boat that I ran, and we could not get the air conditioning to make the bridge cool in in the in in the Bahamas, wherever, South Florida, summertime. You just couldn't do it. It's a blue hull boat, which also sucks the heat in, but we could not get the wheelhouse cool until we put in this 3M product in the windows, which kept all of this the UV out. UV IR, all of it out. I was like, wow, I had to turn the air conditioning down the next day. It was amazing. Anyway, we've got some um in this new apartment, we've got a couple of uh windows that get a lot of sun and bring the heat in there. And these, you know, in in Sweden, uh air conditioning is like, you know, even modern-day places aren't built with air conditioning. It's you know, it's like three weeks out of the year you need that. Anyway, long story short, I was going, I went online and did a trust pilot review of the companies that do the installation here of that film. And I was like, hey, while I'm here, let me check and see what the uh the the the cannibal podcast and rally is, and it's sitting at there's got 15 five-star reviews. So thanks very much to all of those people who did that. But it's interesting with Trustpilot, even 15 five-star reviews, you only get a 4.5. So it obviously takes more than that. But anyway, thanks very much for those who did that. And um, Aaron, what else? What have you learned about Apple Podcasts? Despite all of those amazing reviews, what have you learned about Apple Podcasts?

SPEAKER_07 9:49

Yeah, nothing to report. Still number two. So no matter how many times uh you know, you have all these five-star reviews, still number two, like a pirate. Still number two.

SPEAKER_06 9:58

Yeah, no matter how many wins, still number two.

SPEAKER_07 10:00

Yeah, that's funny. We're actually getting our air conditioning installed next Thursday here in our apartment because this nonsense that you're perpetuating with your lies by saying air conditioning is only needed three weeks out of the year is you have to stop the cycle, Taylor. You have to stop the lie.

SPEAKER_06 10:23

Blame it, blame it on me. Blame it on me. I'm the problem.

SPEAKER_07 10:26

You're part of the problem here. So, yeah, what I what I love about that conversation is yes, you may be able to survive, and it is uncomfortable for three weeks out of the year. You know, I live right downtown in a city, and the issue is the ability to close the freaking windows because at 3 a.m., there's a goddamn ambulance, you know, rolling code down the street, waking up, you know, 500 people. So it's not really about that, it's be able to close the envelope in your little environment. And I realize you live on a lake and it's a little different there, but you know, there's some asshole with a scooter going by with a straight pipe on it, like in Paris or something like that, and you know, and and the whole the whole thing's gone out the window, you know, pun intended. But uh yeah, we are absolutely installing our air conditioning on Thursday in our in our new little apartment simply for that reason, is be able to close the windows and doors. Plus, you know, there's the dock. So if we're out during the day and it gets warm, you know, you have to be able to make sure that, you know, it doesn't get it get too hot where it's where it's dangerous. And by the way, in in Canada, uh, sorry, in British Columbia, I think, they passed an ordinance or a building code that any new construction building must have air conditioning because every time there's one of these heat domes that happen where they break a freaking record, it seems every year they break another record. You know, old people die, right? So, so they says, listen, if you're gonna build new new places, you have to have air conditioning inside the building because old people are dropping like flies. Before their time. Before their time, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:08

Like Robert Mandavi, we will drink no wine before it's time. Yeah. Drop no flies before there's time. As I crush some more the chutes. Let's move on. Hey, by the way, I did want to say about living on the lake. The other day I was in, I was in the the the uh the apartment, and I I was actually, I was, I don't know if I was talking to you, but I heard this horrendous noise. And I wasn't talking to you. I heard this horrendous noise over the noise canceling headphones, and I was like, what the hell is that? And I looked off the balcony, which is on the fifth floor, and there's a helicopter pilot looking in the window using my building as a reference to land the parking lot below. And I was like, So, you know, we do get emergency vehicles there, they just happen to have rotors.

SPEAKER_07 12:50

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 12:52

What was the helicopter for? It was an ambulance helicopter, actually doing drills. They just landed, they cleared the area, they literally cleared the area. They took all of the dust from the parking lot and deposited it on the area I had just finished painting in the apartment. Oh, and yeah, to your point, if we had had air conditioning, I'd have locked that place down and turned it on.

SPEAKER_07 13:13

There you go. You see, actually, as a matter of fact, speaking of noise, uh I'm not sure if the mic's picking it up, but they're servicing our elevator right now. So I guess they're got pumps or something running, changing the hydraulic fluid in the elevator, and there's this rumble going on. So I'm not sure if the mic is picking it up or not, but I apologize if that's that's getting picked up.

SPEAKER_06 13:32

It reminds me, there was that one time when you were at the barn and uh and it started raining on the metal roof, and you're like, I can't I cannot record here. It's just too loud, it's deafening.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

It was, it was terrible. Yeah. Ah, the poor barn. Oh well, it's gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:45

All right.

Setting Up The Spartacus TT Interview

SPEAKER_06 13:47

Let's um let's talk about this interview. I thought this was super interesting. I know that when uh you know, you've done the Isle of Man course a couple of times, and um, and then you had this. Well, let me just jump into this, into this intro here. So Marcus Simpson, Isle of Man TT racer, number 23, also known as Spartacus. I guess that's his if he was a fighter pilot, that would be on his helmet, right?

SPEAKER_08 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:10

He has an average top speed of 127 miles per hour set last year in the TT. So that would be 2025. Just for reference, the highest speed that anyone has ever done a lap, and it's 37.73 miles. So the highest speed recorded was 136 miles per hour as a reference, and he did 127. That's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_07 14:38

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 14:38

Yeah. Yeah. So he had to he had to drive at a commensurate much slower speed than what he's used to in the mountain course, and the roads are set up for one way. So right before, I guess it's right before. Explain that for a second.

SPEAKER_07 14:52

Yeah. Just as it comes out of that last town and you start to climb up the mountain, essentially, they turn the traffic from two-way to one way. So they try to reduce the amount of you know, issues of these Muppets showing up with their Lamborghinis or their GSs and think they're eraser. So it just reduces the amount of issues. So the police, they're all there. It's a weird thing. They have all these cones out, and the traffic is one way, and then halfway on the mountain course over by the Victory Cafe, they have another roadblock set up. But it's very strange to have all the police there saying, go get it, boys, and off you go. There's no speed limits. People talk about that all the time.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

That's one of the most common things is they go by and they're doing, you know, a buck 20 and they and they pass a cop and they're like, hey, have a good day. Well, the whole island has no speed limits except for in towns. So here's some comments that uh that you made. So you've had you've had many track days, and you've had you hold a few track licenses, and as you say, it never gets sold to have an instructor. And in this case, the actual racer took you around the track. You were in no way at a race pace in the mountain section, but there are a few tracks with blind corners. And he what's cool about in this narration of this is that they're blind corners for you, but they aren't blind corners for him because he's done this so many times, he knows exactly what's on the other side and where the car needs to be, or as he's racing, where the motorcycle needs to be in order to come out of it without a problem. So there for you're like, oh my holy mother of God, and he's like, Yeah, this is I need to be right here, we're good. Assuming that there's not a Lamborghini, you know, that's already wrapped itself around a stone wall on the other side. So he talks about that you go around a corner, you come across a stone wall with a blind crest, and then you jump, and then you land, then you come off camera while doing more than 200 miles an hour. And for him, he's just chatting through the whole thing. Um and with that, I think it's probably a good time to roll the interview.

ADV Cannonball Rally Promo Break

SPEAKER_08 16:52

Adventure, endurance, glory. This isn't just a ride, it's the ultimate test of rider and machine. The ADV Cannonball Rally challenges you to ride from ghost to ghost, navigating checkpoint to checkpoint by GPS and pushing past your limits. Take on every off-road stage, and you'll earn bragging rights and a coveted Rough Rider trophy. Own the twisty tarmac and you'll claim the checkpoint crusher award. Every mile counts, every choice matters. Rack up the points, and your name could be etched forever on the winner's cup. This year the routes are harder, the mileage is longer, the glory is greater. The ADV Cannonball Rally is open for registration. Fortune favors the bold. Sign up today.

Spartacus Guides A Lap And Line Choice

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Because it's dangerous. Are you being serious? Being serious, yeah. So the reason I do what I do is because it's the safest form to do it in. And although I know, you know, I know what I do is dangerous, right? I do. But like if um that car down there drops oil and I come through okay, up the mountain where it's one way, car drives over and there's a diesel spill, nobody knows anything about it. Right. But at least with what I do, there's a marshal who tells you. And you know, there's plenty of warnings and there's no cars, you know, whether it's uh grandma or a granddad, you know, if we'd be political about it, politically correct. There's nobody else on the road, it's down to you. Okay. And I just feel like if I did go and get a motorbike license, be bored on a Tuesday night, well, I'd take my bike up the moment. Sure, sure. And I only know one way, really. Right. And um it's a conscious decision I've made to not have one. Yeah, I don't see that changing anytime. So uh flying lap through here, you want to be clicking six somewhere between here and there used to be a bridge where the traffic lights were. Um, you know, I've got a video on my phone or my TikTok somewhere of me coming out of pit lane, and you you come into pit lane and you're almost like talking to your mechanics, as if everything's very normal. And then all of a sudden, you know, you come out of there and you're doing 60k's an hour in the pits, and then by here you're back up to 100 miles an hour going through the box, and you're up to the bottom. Right here is 100 miles an hour. Oh, this is way more on a fly coming out of the pit lane, you're third, fourth, fifth gear now. Um, but on a flying lap on a big bike, you're probably 180 miles an hour through this, you know. You're clicking sixth gear back there, that that bush there that sticks out is my sort of point of interest, and then I go from that point of interest to between the two arrows in the road, uh, under the under the traffic lights. And my aim is to try and do the turn slightly before I get to it, because obviously, you know, you look at this now, like that is a turn, right? But I want to go over that as straight as I can because it's a jump. And I've got I'll show you a photo after if we stop or whatever, and you know, you you do get a jump through here at 180 miles an hour while trying to turn. It looks, and you think, oh yeah, you know, closed road, you come down here on a little bike, no problem, flat out, not a problem. And by a little bike, I mean a super sport bike, because once you ride a big bike, everything's a little bike. Yeah, you ride a big bike, and I do believe if anybody tells you that a big bike doesn't scare them around here, they are lying. Because it is pretty crazy. And by pretty crazy, I mean crazy. But yeah, so three here, flat out and sixth on the big bike on a 600. You know, you you gear your bike is a rough estimate that you click sixth there and then come through. And now, as you as we'll just get to here, you'll see the palm tree-ish sticking up on the corner. So I want to be coming through them two arrows so that where the white car is now, that's the jump. To where the bike is, you know, we jump off that now, we go and jump, you know, we might land here. And then it's just changed the direction over to where the curb sticks out where that VW is now, and again, it you'll get a little wheelie off that. And then the the the next thing is to not not cross over to the left side of the road too soon. We these junctions on the left as three avenues, and they all give you a you see the roads quite pronounced there. So we want to we'll sort of stay around the white line, centre of the road, the most flat of the road. And then now, as we you know, if I move over to here, you'll feel the car, it drops away, right? So now we come over to the curb on the left to open the bottom of Bray Hill. So this is Bray Hill. The uh descent is quite dramatic. Yeah, it is quite dramatic, yeah. And I think people say, Oh, yeah, you know, you it's you know, you go on a bike, and it's just Bray Hill to me. I've grown up here since I was nothing, you know, so it's very normal. But down through here, we you see the tarmac patch on the inside. So if you go too tight, you get a big compression. The more out you come, the less of a compression you get. You'll see all the scuffs from probably last year still. But yeah, I aim to be roughly the middle of the right side of the road through there. Hold your breath a little bit, take the bang, and then you know, just let the bike find its way and just make sure when you come over Agos, that's Agos Leap, you make sure you're straight. You know, even if you want to roll before a jump, that's fine, but just when you get to it, you need to have some form of throttle because it keeps the bike straight. And then this uh I don't actually know what they call it, it's just the next one. You'll feel warm, warm. So it's like uh that when they resurfaced it, the people uh the DOI works of the Isle of Man, uh, there's often issues with the work, shall we say, and um that's one of them. You know, there's like a double that used to be just a nice simple thing, and then got resurfaced, and all of a sudden it's a double thing. That white house is your marker to come back from sixth to fifth, and then now you get need to get back on the gas for this left kink because again that there's the crest in the road, and you want to be driving anything like the crest in the road, you need to try and drive over it because it uh uh you straighten the chain up basically and it just keeps the bike in line. Um and then once you crest this, it's hard on the brakes uh by the first gear for QB, first lap, uh, or when you come out of the pit stop and you've got a full tank of fuel, you notice it. It's there's that added extra weight compared to lap one, and it's um as I say, you notice it. Down the middle right of the road here, uh, because the left side's a bit bumpier. So you sort of come down to where the scooter is now, and then you know you'll start making your way over the over to the left side of the road where this bank sticks out uh to sort of open the right hander of the QB up. It's called the QB because of the pub uh on the off opposite there, it's called the quarterbridge. I don't know whether it was called quarter bridge, I presume it was called Corter Bridge before the pub, and the pub named itself after it, but the pub doesn't open anymore, and it's crazy because there's so many people here in TT that I don't know why people love this spot. For me, it's not quite as exciting as as other places, and um yeah, it's uh it's crazy that they don't open that pub anymore. Yeah, obviously a very slow corner. Uh quite uh the apex is maybe a little bit further around it than what it appears to be. It's your right away, mate. Man's drivers are not the best. And you can leave that in for all I got. So yeah, get you know, out of here, uh wind the gas on uh on the way down to Braddon Bridge. Um up the gears, uh, corner exit is very important. Um you've got to be careful on lap one, you know. You're trying to get your tires up to temperature. Obviously, your bike comes off the warmers at a certain time before you actually get to the start line, and you're just you know you're just building up nicely. And uh the chevron's in the middle of the road here, fork, parallel with the entrance of the rugby club here on the right, and you have to go back up to fourth gear, and that's my breaking marker. Um, you know, you're somewhere here, and you might push it one chevron, two chevron, but that's the clear starting braking marker. And I'm aiming for that tele um lamppost over there to the right. And I won't use all these three lanes of uh traffic here, I won't use the whole of the third, but I might just go over to that uh second dashed line. The apex for Bradden Bridge is not the first one, it's the second one, it's slightly further around the corner. And you know, we've just got to be careful on the change of direction here that I don't fold the front. Uh and again, you know, lap one, that's the first time you've touched the right side of the tyre. So you've got to let the, you know, you've got to work the right side of the tire just for a couple of corners before you really get going. So then out of there, you know, second gear, you know, climb up the gears, third, fourth, rub that wall as tight as you can, uh, give the spectators something to shout about, and then um, yeah, you you know, this is where you're really starting to wind the wind the gas back on.

SPEAKER_07 25:46

I have to say that the whole time he was talking about that, there was stone walls on either side, and he never mentioned that, but it was literally to me was that was the scary part. But I guess when you're a racer, you don't mention that.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

No, you know, it's um look, there's there's things everywhere that could harm you, and you don't tend to look at them. So we're going through a snugburner now. Nip six before you go through, which settles the bike for this crest. Fifth gear, you're high in the RPM on the engine, and uh it can cause the bike to jump around, move around a bit. Where if you just nip a short shift, it just settles it, and it just means that you can you know hold hold the gas on longer and stuff. So for Union Mills, now we're gonna come back to fifth gear. And the key part to this uh left hander here at Union Mills is to try not to blow out to the right side of the road because of the crown of the road, it wants to suck you out there. And you know, the important part of this is actually this right hander, so you maybe sacrifice a little bit there to gain here. So we'll be back to third gear, big bump on the right here on the inside of Union Mills, fast change of direction for the bridge itself, and you know, it will jump off that, two wheels jump, and then now it's just back on the gas, nip forth gear as soon as you can because you know that that corner is so essential to this whole run now to Greeber Castle. You know, this is uh very fast part of the course, um, actually a place where you can just maybe have a little bit of a breather, a few deep breaths, which you know you might find crazy. But the good thing about the TT course is it is physical in lots of different ways, but it's it's more mentally draining than it is physically draining. It's an endurance sport, right? So, you know, BSB, it's a short 30-minute race and it's intense, and I'm sure them guys, you know, are very, very fit for that. Like us guys are very, very fit for this, but it's it's a marathon runner versus a 5k runner, right? It's complete, it's two different two different things to be uh looking to be in sixth gear somewhere now. How fast are you going here? Um 170 climbing towards the the the top end of the the speed of the bike. So I've just come back from the northwest, clock 201 mile an hour there. But you know, we're going uphill. Yeah, while it looks a long straight, you know, you've started in third gear, so yeah, it's all building, building, building, and that's a big thing of the TT course. It's about keeping that momentum. So, like we're now coming down to Balagari, some people call it Balascari because it's uh we don't mind me saying it's a ballsy corner, right? Um and uh yeah, so the 30 mile an hour signs is is a good starting point to sort of come back from sixth to fifth on the smaller bikes, super sport bikes, twin. No, the twin I've done this in sixth gear, you know, just a little roll of the gas and through, and um yeah, you try and push it. So you're back to fifth off the gas, and as we come up the hill to Balagari, now you can see the curb back on the gas and throw it at the curb. That curb is your apex, you want to be pretty tight to that as you can, and as you come through, it opens up, and often you go through that and you go, could have gone faster. So then you know, that whole thing I was saying about the momentum side of stuff, you know, as you can see, like you know, we're now going down to DJs down in Crosby, it's a long straight. If you carry two mile an hour more through Union Mills, well, that could equate to eight miles an hour by the time you're here. And if you ever sit on a motorway, you know, you do the speed limit at 70 and somebody comes past at 77, the distance changes very dramatically, very quickly. And that's the whole thing about this track, you know, that's what the time is.

SPEAKER_07 29:17

And we're just out of traffic light. And what I got in the car, you saw my notes here, and it says top speed one two five decimal 918, and you corrected me. So, what is it now?

SPEAKER_05 29:26

So it's so it's a bit of a bit of a thing. So when I finished the TT last year, I actually believe I did 127 spot zero zero, but apparently it was 126.998. So I think I did 127. It's an average lap speed, yeah. So, like most tracks, you'll talk about a lap time. So 1750 would be the lap time, roughly for that, right? But uh no, we we talk average speed, so because it's a 37 and three-quarter mile uh lap, we we deal in average speed. It's just always been the way of the TT. Back to 1907 when it began, you know, it was all about average speed because I think that's sort of why this became an event in the first place, because of the UK laws on speed, and the Isle of Man managed to sneak it through Timwald. The national speed limit here all year round is a no-speed limit. So if you see a national speed limit sign, the white, the white thing with the the black cross, you go. And as long as you drive with due care and attention, there's nothing that you can do. So if we go over the mountain here one way and there's a copper we can go past them, no problem. So yeah, it's uh it's the heritage of the Isle of Man, and yeah, it's it's cool to be a part of it. This jump is something that worries me every lap. There's not really many places that worry me on the course, but this one does because you don't know what you're gonna get, whether it's the wind, you might not be slightly perfect, straight, and can just just catch you out of it. So this is uh Crosby Leap. But uh in terms of the actual answer to that, like I don't have a favorite or least favorite section because otherwise you dread it every lap. Oh, I'm going from Glen Ellen to Blaff Bridge. Oh no, gotta do that. So, or you have a favorite section and whatever.

SPEAKER_07 31:07

So, this is it here?

SPEAKER_05 31:08

This is Crosby Leap.

SPEAKER_07 31:09

So I want to describe it for people who are not insane. It's literally a looks like a quarter mile long road, and at the end of the hill is the jump. So you can't even see anything. We're in a car right now in Audi. You don't know what's on the other side, so I can see that as being absolutely a leap of faith.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

It's a leap of faith, and if you do it flat out, you will jump it at 190 mile an hour, and you will, as I say, you don't know what you're gonna get with the reaction of the bike, but then immediately after it, it drops downhill, and this is where you know if the speed trap was here at the TT, it's not here, it's at Solby. But if the speed trap was here, the speeds might be recorded even higher because you've got downhill. I know people who clock 200 mile an hour down there because the momentum of the hill that the bike gains, it's a different uh speed to the speed trap time in Solby. So, yeah, we're coming down to Greba Castle. So, as I say, you know, you might be doing 200 mile an hour here, right? And you can see that left hander now. Again, same as the Crosby Leap, you don't know what's around it. You that could be a 90-degree corner for what you know right now. But you know, we're on the gas all the way to about now. You see the White House, and you come back a gear to fifth gear. So there's three little left kinks. You ignore the first one, you apex the second one, and apex the third one. So it takes you around, and then there's a mirror on the right hand side of the road. So now I need to carry the speed out to the right side of the road to open the left upper Griever Castle and um be back another gear or two there to third. Some will carry fourth. I like third because it gives me that security of the engine braking. Fast change of direction over to the curb to apex it early, so by the time I get to this crest here, I can lift the bike up so I don't fold the front or lose the rear over it because of the camera of the road.

SPEAKER_07 32:56

I just have to say that we're doing 40 miles an hour and he hasn't stopped talking. And to imagine in my mind doing this at race pace, there's no time for thinking it's instinctual. How many times have you been around this course at practice or race pace?

SPEAKER_05 33:14

I don't know the exact answer to that. I did about 30 laps in the Manx Grand Prix in 23, and then in 24 and 25, when I've moved up to the TT, the weather's been iffy. So I think I've got eight, maybe eight starts to a race. Um, I would say I've done less than a hundred laps in total. But I've grown up here, as I said, you know, I'm Manx born and bred, proud of it. My dad raced in the Manx Grand Prix from 2006, 2012. It's all I ever wanted to do. I've never wanted to do anything other than that. I actually went to a boarding school in the UK and we'd be supposed to be doing homework in the evening as this allotted time session where we all had to sit down and I'd watch TT on board laps. You know, how many onboards I've done, I would I would have done more than a thousand laps on a video of this place. You know, it's ingrained into me and it's now about just fine-tuning them little details. So I was out for a lap with David Todd yesterday, a good friend of mine, and a good mentor of mine, and obviously he's a senior TT winner. Snowband better to learn off. I've been for a lap with Hickey, uh Peter Hickman, outright lap record holder, picking up a few different points. Um, but yeah, to bring it back to the lap, this is Ghost League. This is uh another big corner on the track. So we're in fifth gear here now. Bike goes light over that crest, and I always try and send people here to watch because you sit on that bank there, and we are where you are, if not closer to that wall. And the apex is just where the golf is now, slightly around the corner, and it's a little roll of the throttle and back on. And the top boys who are doing the bigger speeds, they are out in that gutter. It is a crazy corner. That the first time I did that flout on the 600 was like, oh, yeah, on a 600, that's flower. And I did that flout in 2023 at the Manx. Uh the bike went on the side of the tire, which picks the revs up of the bike, and we were on the limiter. It's nuts, it is nuts. So you're going from that sort of corner down to ballot rate, which is uh you're gonna break somewhere between the first and the second arrow or the two-board or the mushroom tree. There's lots of different markers, different people use different things. But the important bit now is to get scrub the speed off because you've been going so fast for so long, you think you get to here now, and you're like, right, okay, I'm I would get around the corner, and then you get to here and you go, Oh, bugger, I am not going slow enough. So you give it a bit more anchor, and yeah, that's the thing you know when people say about the sense of the speed because you've been going so fast for so long, like all of a sudden 180 mile an hour doesn't feel like 180 mile an hour anymore. So then when you come back to 100, it feels like 80 or 60, but it's not, it's still 100. What

Goals Pace And Building Confidence

SPEAKER_05 35:50

are your goals uh this year? So the way I look at the lap times and stuff for the TT is five mile an hour increments. So I was fortunate to do 120 in my newcomer year at the Manx Grand Prix, and then in my second year at the TT, sorry, my first TT, but my second year on the course, I did 125 on the big like 0.918 as you've got there. And then last year I upped it a bit to 127. But I had a very difficult year in 24 with a lot of crashes and different things. Um last year was a rebuilding year, but essentially what I'm saying is I want to do 130 mile an hour. That's the next goal for me. Whether that's this year, whether it's next year, whether it's the year after, so be it. Do I want to do 130 mile an hour this year? Yeah, of course I do. It's the next target. But with this game, you have to let it come. You know, if you force it, normally it doesn't end well. So if I do it this year, brilliant. If I get close to it this year, brilliant. The the main thing, I guess, is to go faster than last year. So last year, whether it ended 127 or 126.998. If I do 128 this year, if I do 129 this year, I'll tick the box. This is Glen Helen, so Balakrane to Glen Helen. Uh it's uh obviously as you can see the track's now changed. It's a lot slower, it's a lot more at the lower end of the gearbox. It's all very enclosed with the trees, and they've actually taken a lot of trees out over the last couple of years to I think help with when it's wet, it dries it quicker, the less tree coverage, obviously. Uh, and it opens it up, it makes it look a bit more uh inviting, maybe the word. You know, through here, Laurel Bank, might your shoulder on the left side. That that green stuff looks like a nice green bank, right? It's not, look at the bottom, it's a stone wall. So Laurel Bank 2, that's one of the only early apexes on the track. There is a few, but that's one of the one of them. Uh second gear, back up to third, back up to fourth. You're gonna run down the left side of the road here, uh, coming past mile nine, which is the black dub. Um so if we're gonna turn, we're gonna pick the bike up, jump, come back down, back over to the right side of the road, back to third gear, and we're gonna be patient because that's not the apex, that's not the apex, there's the apex, and again it drops down a hill, so you have to pick the bike up slightly to mine the front, and then quick change of direction, over to the right, short shift fourth, and get the power back on. Because now we're gonna go back up to fourth, fifth gear, and we've got rutters, and then we've got Glen Helen two. So we go out to the orange sign, fourth or fifth gear now, into this left, flat out, blind, and then out to that next orange sign, and then we come back one or two gears. No, yeah, if you're in fourth, you come back one to third. If you're in fifth, you come back two to second, uh third. And that crest there, it crests up the hill off the brake. Uh, get back on the gas because it holds it in. Change the direction over to that white wall. Mind not to clip it with your arm because you really have to rub it to get open the this corner up here, Glenn Helen. And um back to second gear. Mine the gas on the exit of this because of the camber of it, and it has in recent years held a lot of water uh in the tarmac for some reason. Straight line over to this uh Sarah's cottage now. That uh orange marker is a breaking marker, as such, to get off the gas. A very long, weird corner. That but again, that's so vital because now, as you'll see, we're going now onto the crunch body. So that whole thing about two mile an hour here is eight mile an hour at the end. That's another one of those corners. So we're going to aim for the martial scaffolding post, short shift third, fourth. We're gonna hug this right hander as much as we can so we can then open the left up so we can hold the gas full on. So we hold the gas full on as much as we can because again, like the slightest little bit of movement at your right hand costs you time. Oh, lamp fell, rub this stone wall to try and make that as much of a straight line as possible to the edge of that curve, and then I hold it down the middle of the right of the road here. Maybe just come out to the white line just to open this up a little bit. But again, you know, this you're in fifth gear now, best part of 150, 160 miles an hour by the time you're here, and you will jump from there to there.

SPEAKER_07 40:08

I have to say that you know, I've done track lessons and things like that. To me, that felt exhausting to me just listening, and then this felt a little bit more relaxing. Can you tell me where you feel like you can build up your energy and what is mentally draining and physically draining to you?

SPEAKER_05 40:23

Yeah, so something I've discovered this year. I've uh been wearing a whoop band and I've been monitoring my heart rates and stuff a lot more. And I actually think that I'm maybe holding my breath a lot while I'm racing. And I think it's probably something that a lot of people actually do. So I've put stickers on my dash this year, which I've seen on other people's as a reminder to breathe. You know, while I've been doing all this heart rate training this year, the more I breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth, the more I can lower my heart rate. All right, deep breaths is simple stuff. Like a cook stand, my first uh my second road race of the year this year. I ran with Dunlop and Sweeney and made a step up. And um, I think by lap three, four, I blew myself out because I think I was just holding my breath too much because I made the step and I'm fighting this bike and I'm doing this and doing that, and I'm actually forgetting to breathe almost. You know, it's it's a bit crazy. So um anywhere like that, kronka voddi straight, Sulby straight, Bala Hutchins straight, anywhere, you know, where I will be looking at my rev counter, maybe just to make sure the you know I time my gear change just perfect, or I want to just check the water temperature, I'm gonna see breathe, which will encourage me to just and hopefully lower my heart rate because obviously the lower the heart rate, the easier it is.

SPEAKER_07 41:42

We've done a bunch of corners and I can't remember any of them, just to be clear. I it's amazing to me that you can memorize every little bump. It's almost like reading Braille in a way.

SPEAKER_05 41:54

The way I always describe road racing is two different ways. So I actually have a tattoo on my arm of a gorilla playing chess, and the meaning behind that is basically me road racing, right? A gorilla is my favourite animal, I think they're very cool. And uh chess, this is very close to chess because when you're playing chess, I don't personally play chess, but when you you know they're thinking so many steps ahead. And like this here, Hanley's, I'm thinking about McGuinness's in in terms of where I want to be on the road out of Hanleys to set that up. I'm not going through Hanleys thinking about the next corner and where I'm gonna be, but it's just about setting the next one up. So, like in chess, you set the next two, three moves up. Well, that's the same with this. Um, and the other way I describe it is so I've I'm talking to you a lot, right? And I'm not shutting up almost because when I'm doing a lap on the bike, all I'm doing is going point, point, point, point, point, and it's going bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. It's like now when we've got this yellow cottage on the left, that's where I'm going for. And at that yellow yellow cottage, I'm gonna come off the gas, I'm gonna come back again, and I'm gonna move now over to the right side of the road, and basically where that curb goes flat, I want to go almost to the right with it to open this left up, which is the top of a garrow. Um, and we're coming down to a real ballsy, maybe, or I don't know what the the right word would be for this. It's it's a pretty crazy corner, right? And um we just try and it's a bit of a deep breath moment because again, you don't know what's gonna happen. You know, you can do everything right, so you think, but it can the bike can just get unsettled for whatever reason. So down here, you're gonna hold the gas on as long as you can. You're gonna drop the gas a little bit, aim for that white line on the right, and you feel this now. You can imagine on a bike, you know, you're two wheels off the ground. It's um it's it's nuts. But it's two wheels off the ground and it wasn't straight. No, and there's a gutter that sticks out from the little roof that you're going through now, and you've just you've just felt the Road's gone smoother again, so you go through there with your bum off the seat, sat up, you know, stood on the pegs, anticipating the big bottom out that you get because a bit of a joke in uh in my team with WH Racing, Steven, uh, who's one of the owners, he's uh the man who repairs the belly pans, and uh yeah, it's uh they get it hammering around here because of all of the bottoms out, bottoming outs you get. So uh that's a corner that you get through, and it's like ha okay, we don't have to do that for another 17 or so minutes. And now we're coming on the run into Kurt Michael. So it if I was made to answer the question, what is my favorite section? We're coming into it. And I think you'll see why. It's so fast, uh, and they're nice smooth corners that the bike sort of floats through, and you slide in a you know you slide in a thousand cc bike on the road at 180 mile an hour. It's not normal. It's not normal.

SPEAKER_07 45:03

Do you find that there is something within the riders every year or every so often that is kind of groundbreaking? Because you're talking about sliding, and that that's something that's only come of age in recent years. Is there something that is developed by the riders that kind of people go, oh, I never thought of doing that?

SPEAKER_05 45:20

Yeah, possibly. Um there's lots of reasons why things change, right? So the track in 1907 had two gates. So you had a gate going onto the mountain and a gate coming off the mountain, and the first and the last rider would have to open and shut them. And there was gravel and there was sheep. That's not normal. So then now, you know, you've got lovely wider roads, you've got corners like brandish that have been opened up, and people can say what they want, but I do believe that they've been altered for the TT course lap time. Um, but also obviously, as you said, like the technology that we're dealing with now, whether it's the tires, the development that goes into them is crazy. The suspension, the the bikes and the manufacturers themselves, you know, these bikes now are very fast. As I've just said, you know, I've done 201 mile an hour last week on a bike that you can go and buy out of the showroom. What

Bikes Sponsors And The Real Costs

SPEAKER_05 46:21

bike will you be riding this year? Yeah, the Honda CBR1000 Fireblade. It's a 2023 model, and then I uh have my own bike, which is uh DD Buckley Racing. There is actually a guy who lives in the States, he lives your side. Um, he's come on board as a sponsor of mine this year, and uh it's a Triumph 765 2024 model, uh, which I actually had a crash on at uh TT in 2024. Uh I'll show you where that happened when we get to it. But um yeah, I was very lucky to survive it, to be truthful with you, and that's why I was sort of saying, you know, about a big rebuild year last year, and while the goal this year is to try and make a you know a good step of some description, it's just about enjoying it, you know. Like this is at the end of the day, this is a hobby. Uh for most of us, you know, a lot of us are still putting money into it. You know, you know, no matter what level of sponsorship you may receive or don't receive, we're all still putting something in. And I'm fortunate enough that I've got a few things going on that I don't work nine to five or any sort of main major job. Um you know, I put my heart and soul into this from January. Uh well actually the end of January, I was riffing for four months during winter just to keep the money coming in and pass the past the winter months, and because it's good to get out and keep busy. This is a hobby, and uh the main thing, you must enjoy it because the amount of time and effort and money and dedication that goes into this, if you don't enjoy it, you're wasting not just your time, but a lot of people's time.

SPEAKER_07 47:59

I think people often are watching this on TV and they're seeing the clips on you know TikTok and stuff, they don't realize there's just real people behind these races. And can you tell us who has uh stepped up behind you in in last recent years? Do you have any sponsors that are helping you?

SPEAKER_05 48:14

Yeah, so I've got great local businesses that help me. And um I've actually done a thing on my Instagram the last three days where I've thanked them in different orders. So, like I've got sponsors that have been involved with me since day one, and that was 2019. You know, people in a 23 club that have supported me since I started. Uh, this is my favorite section now, by the way, from Kurt Michael to Balaf. This is this is that. Um, and then I've got people that you know have come and gone, and I've got people that came on board last year. So this was the second sort of post I did about people who came on last year. Uh and they have carried on into this year, and then I've got new companies this year, like Millionaire Competitions, uh, Trade Nation, who uh have come on board as new sponsors this year, and it must be really gratifying to know that people are willing to put their time and their money behind you.

SPEAKER_07 49:09

We're talking about roofing, and we're talking about you know putting sponsors on your livery. There's lots to TT racing besides clipping that apex and uh doing uh your fastest average speed. What else do people not realize what is involved in uh entering an event like this?

SPEAKER_05 49:26

You play football, you might play football on a Tuesday night and a Saturday, and you go to the pub after. But this, whether you are at the top of it or the bottom of it, in terms of the TT, you're all of a sudden your year does not run from January to December. It's the last week of May until the last week of May. Because it's all about TT. Whether that's families that don't go on holidays, whether it's people who work three jobs to pay for it, whether it's debt, whether it's training four or five times a week and not seeing your wife, you know, I'm I'm single, but these are all things that people experience, right? At different levels of this, and I think people look at it, and because this is the this is the creme de la creme, right? We should be like a Formula One driver or a MOGP rider earning millions because it's the creme de la creme of the sport. No one is, no one's earning millions at this. It's not just not it's not that sport. You do it for the love of it and the passion that you have for it, and that just means that whatever you need to do to be on that grid on Monday, you do it.

Family Legacy Risk And Why He Races

SPEAKER_07 50:44

You had mentioned family there, and my notes here say that you've had family involved in the mountain course since about 1930. How much does that legacy weigh on you when you prepare for a race and you're actually involved in a race?

SPEAKER_05 50:56

It doesn't really weigh on me too much, to be honest. Uh nearly a Manx driver pulling out on me there. We almost almost got taken out by a Range Rover. We're just on the left kink on the way into Sulby, Sulby Strait. But um no, the it me it does mean a lot. So my family heritage, as you said, goes back to 1930, and it's on my mum's side of the family, and it's like her her uncle or my great uncle, and he was a factory velocity rider, um, and he only did it for three or four years, and in a I think in a a day-to-day car accident, he lost his arm or something, so that was the end of his career. But then the obviously I don't remember that, I was I wasn't even a thing then, you know. And uh then my granddad was uh chief scrutineer for the the Manx Grand Prix, and he was head of the Manx Motorcycle Club. And again, unfortunately, he passed away when I was six months old, so I don't have any recollection of him. But then my dad, he raced from 2006-2012, and that's where my love and passion and and everything for this this sport came from. And that doing him proud, so unfortunately, he's not with us anymore. He passed away from cancer uh when I was 15. But you know, to know he's looking down on me and and watching me do all this, yeah. I hope I'm making him proud for a start, and it really does mean a lot that my family have gone back for so long, you know. I almost look at it as if I didn't have a choice in this matter, you know. It's it was in my blood from a long time ago. I was gonna do this no matter what.

SPEAKER_07 52:35

Okay, we finally got away from the big excavator that was uh we've got a bagger in front of us here, and we finally come out of the towns, and that's probably a landmark that you use when you're coming through here.

SPEAKER_05 52:46

So we're coming past the ginger hall hotel. Uh, this is where the course changes dramatically now. We're going through the bumpiest sector of the course. So um the whole sector is Balaf Bridge to Ramsey, but ginger hall to Ramsey is what people refer to. So you'll now feel you know the roads starting to change. It's very bumpy. Um, there's the odd bit of surfacing that's been done, but for the majority of it, uh we're in for a we're in for a bit of a ride here. Yeah, I can feel it. Um so you're all I short shift fourth over that so that I can um settle the bike as I've already said, and then I come back to third, and then now I'm gonna sort of follow the middle of the line. I'm not gonna go in yet because I actually I want there where that car is. So um there's a lot of that hesitation around here that you have to trust, you have to know the road. We're gonna now come over to that curb and I'm gonna pick the bike up to go over that jump. And then again, you know, you've got to respect what the bike wants to do, but you have to tell it what to do via the throttle. So now you know you're almost short shifting the gears because the more I can hold the throttle flat out, the more the pitch of the bike is gonna sit on the rear wheel and uh make the front sort of dance over the road. If I start rolling on and off the throttle, then the weight transfer of the bike is gonna go du and it's gonna dig the front in, it's gonna make it react in a what we call a tang slapper, and that's when things start to get out of control. So the smoother and the calmer you can be through this sort of section with the steady throttle, the better it is for you. Again, now, like we've said in other places at blind, right? So I'm in sixth gear here holding it wide open, and I just need to know that I can hold it all the way over this, all the way over this. Ah, and now I'm gonna come back to fifth. I'm gonna let the bike just sort of sit in the middle of the road. I'm gonna come in left here for Glenn Trammon, and then now I'm gonna come back again to fourth or third, depending on uh what bike you're on or how experienced you are, because this corner now, you know, I need I need to pick the throttle back up because the throttle will hold the bike on the inside just ever so slightly, not enough to be accelerating as such. And then we've got this left hander where the grid sits on the inside for uh your apex, and now we we're on again back to the bumpy stuff. This is where it gets really quite violent again until you sort of enter uh Ramsey via mill town. Uh so we're heading to the K tree now, and as you can you can you can feel it even in the car, can't you? And we're doing 45 miles an hour. You can imagine when you're starting to get up to 50 here and doing 150 miles an hour that this is violent.

SPEAKER_07 55:30

You know, I'm just thinking about that. It's frightening, and you know, as I get older, I'm over 50 now, I'm all about preservation. My question is how young were you when you took your first kind of lap in anger?

SPEAKER_05 55:45

Um so my first lap of the TT course, I was 24. 24, is that right? 23 or 24. Um, I know what you mean by that, but the key to this game, especially this course, is to be calm. And I can't watch that. So for me, sitting on the hedge, I watch, oh, ooh, the slightest little bit of movement. But when you're sat on the bike and it's you controlling it, you're not sat there going, ha, like it's it's it's it's not rock music, it's classical. It's so calm, it's so methodical. You know, as I'm you know, I'm talking you through all of this. This is everything that's going through my head while while I'm riding, you know. I'm so I've got a jump here now, and I'm gonna throw it at the wall on the right here because you're going so fast. You jump, land, throw it at the wall. Um, and then I know I need you know, I'm in fifth gear now, and I know I'm gonna come back to fourth gear at the entrance or the exit to this school. And then I know that in the recent years there was a grid that was raised on the right side of the road. So I don't want to go over that because I might lose the front, and I know that the road opens around the corner, and you just it's just it's so methodical. And I think people are, you know, there's always them people online that call it crazy and it should be banned and it should be this, or you've got a death wish, you've got it's the complete opposite, it's like so far from the opposite, you know. The amount of time and effort that should go into learning this, you know, there's always exceptions, but 98%, 99% of everybody here, you know, puts so much time into this because you want to stay safe, and you the only way to stay safe, or the first thing to stay safe in this is knowing when I come around this corner, there's a lay-by on the right where the school can part the bus, and the road opens up, and I know that that tarmac patch is gonna get unsettle the bike, so I'm gonna be prepared for it, and then at them crossroads the bike's gonna get unsettled a little bit over them, so I'm not gonna actually start breaking until just after them so that the bike's smoothened out again. Like, it is crazy, of course. It's of course it's bloody crazy, like it's nuts, but it's not when you're on the bike, you know. You don't ride in anger as such, you ride to your ability and your experience. Experience around something like this is so important.

SPEAKER_07 58:06

We're in another town now. What is this town? So we haven't even gone to the mountain course yet. And I and I'm and I'm exhausted thinking about memorizing all that to be clear. The progression of a TT racer. So you don't just go and do the TT. Maybe explain your first kind of competitive event here on the island.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

Yeah, so like in terms of the first thing you said there, we've just come past mile 23. So we're just over halfway. We've done uh Startline to Glen Helen, we've done Glen Helen to Balaf, and we've done Balaf. We've not even finished sector three yet in the sixth sectors. The preparation then that's gone into getting me here. I've been riding motorbikes since I was a kid, just around the feet the the garden or a friend's field or whatever, right? Motocross bikes. 2018 I bought my first track bike and I did a couple of track days. 2019 I did um my first race meeting, and basically the way it works in the UK with an ACU license is you have to get to what's called a national license, and you have to hold that national license for two years, uh 12 months, sorry. And the way you get to that is by firstly, from novice to clubman, you have to finish 10 race days, you get a signature for one day of racing. So if you do three races in a day, you don't get three signatures, then you just have to finish. You can finish last, it doesn't matter. To go from clubman to national, you have to finish within a certain percentage of the leader uh of that race or the top three average time or something, right? And then again, the same thing, you get a uh signature for that one day of ride. That's how it sort of works. Once you've got your national, you then go from your national to uh uh holding it for 12 months before you can compete on the mountain course, and then you can start doing road races as well. So, like I did a full year on the Irish Roads in 22, did the Southern 100, which is down Castletown on the Isle of Man, and then no most people go to the Manx Grand Prix first. Some people will do it with no road racing experience at the TT because they've done BSB and all they want to do is this, but at the Manx now, and has been for a long time, the criteria is that you are required to have done road racing, which I think is correct. People have a split view on this, but I think it's correct. I think you should have to have some form of road racing experience, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:00:37

You mentioned those uh those races in uh Ireland and the Manx. What were your top finishes?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:43

So I uh when you go to Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland to start with, unless you've done an international event, which is Northwest TT Macau, or you've done the um you've done the BSB, you generally have to go in what's called the support races. So I have uh I have actually won support races, uh hold a lap record for the support class at Halmoy. I then moved up uh in the second year, and um I'm gonna really struggle to drive slow here. I've not done a one-way system yet.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:25

So now we're on the mountain course.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:27

Yeah, this is the well, the whole thing's the mountain course, right? So Well, that's really fast. I want to be clear that that was fast as hell. That was 85 miles an hour in the race day. We're going a bit faster than that. So some bumps on the exit here that you've got in mind, which obviously you can even feel in the car, but on a bike you're going even faster. So we're coming up to the first apex that's very important up the mountain. So we apex this first one, and if you watch my steering wheel, I'll apex the first one. Well, it's so fast, and I won't really now turn. The car goes around, so that's the important bit. Now we're into gus three is some people run that rumble strip into that wall. Mine the camber, so now we're gonna pull it over to the signs on the right. There's a scaffolding tower on the inside here. Again, the I know I know the track opens, but that's our uh apex. Now watch this white wall, watch how much it jumps out, that black bit. You've got to mine that with your shoulder. So now we're on the Mount Miles. So we've obviously spoken there before about having a breather. This is somewhere where you get a very small breather. So people have this conception, that people have this uh perception that's why the mountain road is closed. Because people like that that think they know what they're doing, and they uh that's why I don't ride a bike on the road. This is why it's so dangerous because you've got nut jobs like that. You know, I've had a bit of fun. I think that's funny that you said nut jobs. They are, they really are, and unfortunately, there are people that think they know how to ride a bike, and I hate to say it, but a lot of them don't. So, you know, this is I actually hate coming up here really in TT because especially at a time like that where the whole track's just opened, um it's it's worrying, you know. The yeah, it's like you just don't know what you're gonna get with people. But yeah, so this is the end of the mountain mile. So we're coming up to where I crashed in 24. So the windsock, you might have just seen it there on the on the right.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:35

It's uh look like they're just calling trust. It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, we have to say, because this is an audio-only podcast, that we're we're on the mountain course, it's close to one-way traffic only. This is something to do with this time of the year. And Marcus is trying to explain what's happening, and we're driving in a fast clip, and it was actually really cool to see someone who really understands the turns. To me, it's a blind turn, but he's just powering through it, and I'm you know losing my mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:09

I crashed here. I hit I hit that curb, and uh luckily I slid down the road. I came back into the road rather than the bank and the stones over there. Uh otherwise it would have been a very different story. But uh the last two people who crashed there didn't make it, uh, and I was very lucky too. Wow, uh, which is what speed? I know it's cliche to ask. 130, 140 mile an hour, yeah. It's 135th gear. Um we're now coming around the veranda, so you see you'll note that the sign changes colour here to a orange one because that's the apex. So um again, you know, you sort of like just let it link up, and we're now coming down to uh bungalow bridge.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:50

His criticism was not was not there out of uh ego, it was there out of concern.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:57

Entirely concerned. Um entirely concern because these poles, these banks, the trees, the walls, whatever it is, they're not moving. They're not going anywhere. And again, you know, look, you've got a Tiguan here trying to go up the inside of a biker. And where is he in the room? Look, it's just it's just nuts. And you have to be so careful when you're driving because you need to check your mirrors because you've got bikers trying to run a racing line that they don't know what the actual line is.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:30

Um you've got people in four by fours, you've got so many, like you've got two people here as a pillion. Um these guys are all gonna stay in.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:42

They are so now this is um by the way, we passed a bunch of motorcycles, just to be clear, and a car.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:50

So that's duke, so that's 30 seconds, we apex to second, and again, if you almost watch my steering wheel, I don't have to turn the wheel. Once I get to my apex, the car. Finds its way around the corner. Windy Corner, massively famous corner. We are up on top of the mountain right now. If you look to your right, the valley, beautiful scenes on the Isle of Man. Really lucky to have stuff like that. But obviously, if you imagine the winds coming from that way, well, it hits right at the apex of that corner. And it's called Windy Corner because it's bloody windy. It's very simple. Which is sort of I believe a part of the reason why I crashed at the corner I did. Because again, you have a valley coming up, and the wind blew me. I passed someone down the mountain mile and I came back in front of him. And I remember like the sorry, I'm racist coming out there. I'm getting past and I don't like. Look at that.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:45

Look at a squat. Oh geez. Oh, geez, that suspension. Look at like yeah. They're having a laugh, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:57

Listen, they're adults, and if they want to make an adult, right? Free world, right? Free world, but no, my my crash, I think, partly was to do with the wind. And as you said, we're on the mountain now. You know, it's the whole thing is the mountain course. But we are now on the mountain. We're high up, so the wind, you know yourself, you ever go hiking or whatever, look at the wind, so it's blowing around. You imagine being sat on one of them bikes doing 180 miles an hour, don't they? The wind is fierce. Really is fierce. Sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:25

When I'm on just on the highway, I can't do over 100 miles an hour for very long. It's just, it's just exhausting, you know. It's just it's just a lot. And then the slightest little gust, and it just, you know, it's cold brown once in a while. You know, I I can imagine up here it can be uh it can be shocking and it can result in a crash.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:42

Of course it can. Yeah, so my crash, I think there was a few factors to it. But the wind, I believe, when I turned in, the bike didn't turn in as I maybe wanted it to. And at that point, my mind, because I was it was my second year, my first TT, and there was a lot of few other factors, but I think my mind maybe went, oh, what's happened here? And then my instant my your your instinct, your your reaction is to shut the throttle and panic, right? It's the worst thing I could have done that ultimately caused the crash. Uh ultimately it was my fault. Uh accept that shutting the throttle is uh a massive no-no. You know, if in doubt, flat out, kind of sometimes comes true, and that is certainly one of those times because the when you you know, if I go around this corner off the throttle, the bike car's gonna wander. The the you know, the there's no weight, whether it's a car or a bike, you know, they they just want to wander. Whereas as soon as you put the throttle on, it just pulls it back in. And it's the same with the bike whether you're inputting through the brake or you're inputting through the scooter brake for the rear brake, but you're inputting through the throttle, your body, the bike, Peter Hickman explained it to me like this the bike is stupid. You need to tell it what to do. Uh obviously, maybe some of your listeners will know what the neutral zone is. Uh the neutral zone is where you're not on a throttle, you're not on a brake. Um, and that's the time where the bike is vague. It's the best way of putting it, right? And uh yeah, you need to you need to give the the bike input all the time.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:18

In this, we're starting to head back down the hill now, and we just passed a very famous corner, and this is the type of place where you could be in neutral.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:31

Don't mind doing the speed limit when we're gonna 40 mile an hour like this ticker players is two-way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's two-way now. Yeah, so where we pulled in there at the bungalow, just as we got to the rise before we went the left, where the Tiguan was trying to go around the outside of the bike, um, that is where the course, so the mountain starts its descent. And you as a rider, you know what's happened because the way the bike starts to rev changes. So it starts to go up through the the rev range a lot quicker. Uh it starts to uh excel it just accelerates easier because obviously you have downhill, you have momentum, right? You're not fighting up a hill. I always feel more uncomfortable downhill than uphill. Yeah, because again, probably you've down to this neutral zone because you coast because you don't need to you don't need to give the input because the bike's vague and it doesn't know whoa, whoa, I'm just coasting or whatever, and everything happens a lot faster, and yeah, it's uh yeah, we've just come into the last sector here now, that's Kronk Namona. But uh, this is now the last sector. So there was two sectors uh Ramsey Hairpin to where we stopped, and then from where we stopped to there, and now this is the third and final sector, which is the shortest. This is about a 57 second to a minute five, whatever, depending on the level of rider you are. Uh and this is where I grew up. So since since I was born, I lived in a house down here, which I'll point out to you. Uh I still own the house, I rent it out now. Um, and I live with my mum because I'm never really here. So um try and be as weight as much as I can. Yeah, so this is uh we've just gone through uh signpost and now coming into bedstead. I don't know how many laps or how many bikes I've watched from the end of my driveway. Be thousands, you know. You really had no choice but to be a camera racer at this point, no. I'm living my dream. So this house here, the 37th mile. That's my garage there, just at the back. Uh that's where my bikes are, it's where I run everything from. Uh, it's where I grew up, kicking balls, watching the bikes over that fence, going into the neighbour's property and uh running running through the trees and watching the bikes down there, which I would say not a lot of people have been able to do. Um and yeah, this is you know, I when I was a kid, I'd be going down the skate park, riding to and from here all the time. Uh when you're local, uh yeah, it it's just a normal road for 11 months of the year. And when the Manks Grand Prix are the TT on it, all of a sudden you see it as a race course, but when you've raced it, it's hard not to see it as a race course all the time. We're on the very final stretcher. This I this I actually recognise. So that's Governor's Dip down there. So we obviously that little part there, we've sort of come off the course, if you like, and the the old original roads that used to uh uh be part of the course we still use. Um and yeah, now now it's the home run. Uh and I now live with my mob uh up this avenue here. So again, basically where we break for the pit stop, the bus stop at the end, bus stop just down here. I live more or less opposite that bus stop. Yeah, uh at some point I'd like to pull a bit of a publicity stunt and walk out my gate and my leathers and come down the back of all this and hop the wall and uh jump on the bike. I don't think anyone's ever been able to do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:59

Well, I think you've earned it, that's for sure. Uh speaking of your mom, as we as we cross the the uh the finish line here into the uh beginning of uh pit lane, what does your mom think about all this?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:09

She loves it. She obvious we actually spoke about this not last night, the night before, with a friend we had over for a drink. And um of course she would rather, as any parent would, that their son, daughter, whoever it may be, didn't do something like this. It goes without saying, right? Like it's um it's not something that you're you would like your kids to do. But she sees where I came from when I was 18 when that button flicked and uh my life changed and it brought a lot of good things to me. My life changed massively because of bikes and for the better. And she's seen what that's done, and she is the mo I I honestly I know a lot of mums who are very supportive, and everyone always says, Oh my mum's the most supportive, but the amount of stuff she does to me for me, she she bet she barely misses a meeting. She's just she helps me with my 23 club, she gets me sponsorship in, she you know, she actually took up a new job uh at the Northwest this year as a pit board, uh pit board girl. You know, she's giving me the information I need while I'm doing it. When my mum, despite the family interest and stuff, she's no idea about like she's no idea. She's definitely learning. Um and she definitely knows a lot more than she did maybe ten years ago. But in reality, you know, it's um she she doesn't she knows me. We've developed a thing uh over the last few years, and and there's no real way of saying this. She knows when to be there, when not to be there. We we always have a hug and a kiss or whatever before I go uh out on the bike, and then she she lets me do what I do.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:50

This obviously carries real risk. Have you had the discussion with your your closest family about the risks?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:56

No. No, not as such. Um yeah, look, of course it carries risk. Um that's partly probably why we do it, because if you pick this track up and put it in a massive area that had loads of gravel trap and runoff, is it the same? No, probably not. But also it's kind of a side that is unspoken about in a way. Like I would definitely try and avoid I've grown up with this long enough to know that people get hurt and unfortunately sometimes people pay the ultimate price. And some people are very some people talk about it too much for my liking. We all know it can happen. We all accept that. But yeah, it's um it's just a part of the parcel. It's the simplest way of putting it.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:41

What is a good result for you this year?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:44

Top 20. You know, I want to be a consistent top 20 finisher this year. With the TT, with there being so many people and the the test of man and machine. Um sometimes you get people in the top twenty that uh retire for whatever reason. My first six lap superbike race around the the TT, I finished twelve. Uh which was pretty amazing for me. You know, to nearly have a top ten as a basically a newcomer to the TT. Certainly a newcomer to the big bike around here was phenomenal. And last year I think I did a 15th, so top 20 is more than realistic and I've done them. Um and yeah, I think again it's a weird one. Like it's not all about finishing position because unless you're on the podium, whether you finish fourth or twenty-fourth, it's maybe personal to people, but it doesn't matter all that much. It's more about just self-progression and self-improvement. So it boils back down to that thing of the lap time and improving the lap time. Self-improvement in that respect.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention? I've just been handed an urgent and horrifying news story. And I need all of you to stop what you're doing and listen. Cannonball!

SPEAKER_08 1:17:02

Hey cannonballers, thanks for subscribing to our podcast. We appreciate it. If you're not a cheap Canadian and want to buy us a coffee, head on over to buymeacoffee.com. Or better yet, buy us a case of sweet ass craft IPA. Release it on patreon.com. Links are in the show notes. Now, back to the riveting podcast in progress.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:27

And

Hosts React And Pull Out Lessons

SPEAKER_06 1:17:28

we're back. Nice one. Dude, that was I thought that was super interesting because look, you've done this before. You've ridden the TT course, you've done it again this time. You rode in the car with him. And I thought it was really interesting the whole time. I was actually commuting to work when I was listening to it. And at one point I had somebody called me and I had to take the call. And then I just couldn't wait to get off the get off the phone to get back and listen to the next step because I was right to the point where he was narrating. And I know it was right before you um well, I'll jump into that here in a second, but I thought it was super interesting the whole thing was uh was really riveting because I felt like it was like watching, you know, he talked about in the beginning of the interview, he talked about that kids can really prepare themselves for these now. And also in the Stuart Barker interview, he talked about people can get the the game and they can they can ride this, they can ride this course. And he said he did that over a thousand times before you know, before he actually got there on a motorcycle and did this course at speed.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:24

All of the great courses are on video games now, and they're basically sims. They're so accurate. So the uh Nurberg Ring, the Isle of Man TT, all of these great courses are basically on sims. And it may not be to remember every bump in the road, but you have to remember the hundreds of turns of which one's flat out, which one is a trailbreak, which one is a late apex, which one is a false apex. And that's what they're they're memorizing. And that's what I found amazing is that I've never been on a track where it's a blind corner. Yeah, you have to memorize. You have to say, okay, I have to remember to keep gas on here to keep the back end stable, or I have to remember to trail break longer, or I have to remember to feel for this bump, and then I get back on the gas, or you know, yada, yada, yada, whatever it may be. But never have I been on a course where it's a bloody stone wall and it's a blind crest. I can't, I can't say this enough. And then it's a negative camber turning the other side, and he says flat on it. I'm like, the courage and confidence that takes is really something I've never experienced before.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:30

I thought it was really interesting. Like I learned a lot about like I've never ridden a super bike. Uh I think I read a C VR 600 once, and then I that's when I got hooked. Um, but he talked, I learned a lot about like what goes on with a motorcycle. He talked about the neutral position, and he talked about when you, you know, you want to be on the gas, and when you you want to be steady through there so that you or you want to be on the gas and lift the front end up so that as you go through these wiggly bits and then you come across a jump, you want to be on the gas so the front end just sort of settles down, but you want to come across the jump flat so the chain doesn't come. I guess when you hit the chain with an angle, the chain comes down and doesn't align properly on the rear sprocket. So I learned a lot about motorcycles just in in in hearing him narrate the entire course as you went around the entire 37.73 miles.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:18

And as old guys, we used to be taught to never enter a corner more than you can, you know, go through the apex. And all of this is wrong. Like your first day on a track course, whether it's Yamaha's fast course or whatever it might be, or even just watching a modern day YouTube video. I always try to teach people trail breaking because it's exactly that. It's always having something going on with the bike and never having it neutral. I don't care if you're on your old man GSA or your RT or your Honda Goldwing, that when you're going around the corner, and it's really, it's really rewarding, actually, because there's nothing, you know, it's not much to do, right? So if you're if you're practicing your trailbreaking, as you're going through the Abex, you are trailbreaking. And there's this wonderful thing of applying a little bit of gas while you're just easing off of the brakes. There's that smooth transition. And the bike is never in that coasting position, which is so bloody dangerous, right? Yeah. And that was the old way you were taught to go through corners, and it's completely wrong. So it's really great to hear a racer describe how very dangerous that is, just to be off the gas and off the brakes.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:26

I love his comparison of road racing to chess. One is during his execution of a curve. So he's in the curve, he's going through it, but his mind is already planning how to set up for the next two or three. So he's again, like chess, planning many, many moves ahead. But so he gets into that one, he stops thinking about it. Now it's instinct. And then the next ones that he goes through are the ones he's planning. I think that was that was just a brilliant explanation from him.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:51

Here I am doing full code Brown, freaking out, but but he's concerned about three, four turns later because if you exit that corner a little bit off, you're now messed up for the next setup. You're not you're and then it'll have second and third order effects. So it's really, really elegant how he's describing that there's no time for Code Brown. There is simply next, next, next. And one mistake has a knock-on effect for several turns. It's really, really amazing.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:23

In that, he demonstrated that when he was in the car. So of course, I wasn't in the car, but you hear the engine, right? You hear the engine up, down, you can hear the bikes passing you. Um, and there's one section where he's like, look, if you get into the curb, you're going around the corner, and then he says, You just put the car in the right position, because of course he's in the car with you. And then he says, You put the car in the right position, and then you accelerate, and then it just finds its way to the proper side of the road. And he and he's just making it's like I can imagine, like you were describing to me one time your track day, it's like you're in this whatever Porsche and you're just muscling the car around and you're all around, and you're just just all over the course. And then the instructor gets in and he's just got two fingers on the wheel and he's doing the exact same thing at twice the speed around the course, and you're like, son of a bitch, how did he do that? Same same explanation from this guy.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:08

Exactly. It's the worst. And every time you think you've crushed your track record, you're all the computers going. Instructor gets back in two days later at the end of the weekend, and it just smashes your time by like, you know, 10 seconds, like you're not even there, and literally no drama. And you know, that's what breaks track times. And it looks dramatic, especially on a TT in those viral clips where they're in the air and the bike is unstable. They're not even thinking about the bike being unstable. They're not even thinking about the front wheel being being off the ground or like missing the hedge by millimeters. They're thinking about the next three corners. It's really a demonstration of courage and skill.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:45

One comment that sticks out about his favorite section. So he kind of sets you up. He's like, We're getting near my section. He says, and then we're entering it. And he says, You're sliding a you're sliding a thousand cc bike at 180 miles per hour. And then he goes, It's not normal. And then, and then he he he says, It's not normal. I love that. But here he is doing it, you know, doing it like it's not a big deal. Um, you were also riding to one area that was a 45 mile per hour, and he says, Yeah, we normally come through here at about 150. And then a final comment of things that I thought were really interesting, and he's like, riding these machines, and just like you talked about a moment ago, it's about this place of calm, and that is when you're not fighting the machine. He says, It's not rock and roll on these machines, it's classical music when sat on the bike.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:32

Huh? I don't remember. It's funny. I sat with him, I edited that thing, and it's funny that sometimes we recap an interview, and it's kind of important. It's just fun for me because I don't remember half of that. That's really interesting. He's actually a sophisticated dude, and you know, they're just kids. Let's face it, I did stupid things when I was his age, right? He's really well put together. I mean, amazing, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:54

It's like he's so well put together.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:56

It's like, you know, I understand why you're a TT racer. You're not just, you know, a hooligan. You maybe a little bit of a hooligan, but at the end of the day, you've clearly done your 10,000 hours to be allowed onto the TT track during race day. And it was really cool to review some of the tape from this year and uh see him on the course, which was which was really amazing. Maybe you can give us a rundown on this year's results.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:21

Yeah,

TT Standings Prize Money And Reality

SPEAKER_06 1:25:22

but before we do that, I want to talk about the fact that, and this also came in the Stuart Barker interview where he said these are just normal people. And here he is, and Spartacus is doing roofing for four months during the winter just to, you know, just to bring a little extra cash in, right? And he's got sponsorship. He's like, Yeah, just he's a normal guy.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:40

The sponsorship doesn't pay for his you know beers around the pub. The sponsorship is maybe getting him a new helmet, maybe use of a bike. But at the end of the day, you know, he's not on a salary. And then even if you win, there's no windfall there, right? So these guys are just normal dudes. And when you're in the Isle of Man and you're down at the pub, you know, the guy sitting across from you could be, you know, a five-time champion. They're just normal local people, most of them. There are some people that come in um from abroad, but generally speaking, all the local legends are exactly that. There's just local guys that could be, you know, throwing some shingles on your roof during the winter.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:21

Interesting. You mentioned money. So um I've uh I have been accused of being money oriented before. So I'll just stick with the same theme. I'll embrace it, I'll lean into it, and I'll talk about there's lots of different races that they do during the week. But if you want to figure out who came away with the best score, you look at who made the most money. So you follow the money and find the truth. Let's go. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:45

So top three, and this can be any any of the last few years, you can just mix these names up, and you're probably going to get these guys in the top three. This year, it was uh Dean Harrison. And let me just compare this money. Let me just start to say this. So the guys who race Moto GP, their annual salary for the top Moto GP racer this year, I don't know his name, it's it's insignificant for this conversation. He made 17.2 million euros for the season. Wow. Whereas these guys, Dean Harrison, Michael Dunlop, and Peter Hickman, these guys, they have been quoted as saying, when I sit at the lineup at like a Moto GP or any of these other races, I do not feel in danger at all. My heart doesn't even race. When I sit at the at the lineup at the starting grid of the TT, then the adrenaline hits, but not at these other races. And and these other races, by the way, they're making 17.2 million euros per season. Whereas these guys, after risking their lives in the most dangerous race, motorcycle. Racing that is still ongoing in the world. These guys, number one position, made 77,000 euros and change. Number two, Michael Dunlop. He's racing a uh the first of all, uh Honda on the first bike, Michael Dunlop on a Ducati. By the way, Michael Dunlop's rid ridden every kind of machine that is competitive. He came away at number two position with a whopping 56,232 euros. And Peter Hickman in third place got steak knives. No, I'm kidding. He didn't just got an El Dorado. No, he got a he got 43,000 and change Euros. So if you compare that to that 17.2 million, these guys clearly do this because they love it. They don't do it for the money.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:47

And then this year, a 33-year-old rider died this year. And while I was there, there was an accident with a sidecar, and she's in you know terrible, terrible condition. Uh there was a um GoFundMe just done, and she will be forever changed. And they actually canceled the sidecar events for uh for both races this year because it was just too much. There were just too many accidents. So we're not sure what the future of sidecar racing will be at the um Isla Man. But yeah, so someone died this year. So every year when they start the race, I think consistency, one of those guys or girls are not going to be alive. And they're owned, they're not chasing money. You know, you just demonstrated that. But I think there should be a bigger compensation. I'm not sure how, but I think it's just the same as people always say to me, why doesn't the ADV Cannonball rally have all these giant sponsors? You have all this exposed, you have all that. You know, people aren't dropping like flies in my rally, but people are, you know, we have the same kind of air about it, right? Unless it's a sanctioned Moto GP or sanction this or whatever that, or people just don't want to come near it. And it's it's a real shame because they're getting the media exposure, um, the community's behind it, but no one's writing the checks. And it's just me behind my computer making rallies, or it's Dunlop missing uh hedges at 200 miles an hour, but no one's writing the check, which is a shame.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:21

Yeah, that's very true. Let's speak about something a little bit more positively, such as Aaron's ride outs.

Aaron’s Rideouts Hurricane Ridge Pick

SPEAKER_09 1:30:31

Blitz at the road, smash some gears, and ride out to this week's adventure bike checkpoint.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:39

Okay, funnily enough, Brian, our friend Brian, is in the state of Washington and he is heading to Hurricane Ridge today. So today's ride out is Hurricane Ridge and Obstruction Point. There's a little side dirt road that brings you out to the trailhead of obstruction point, and there's some great view. So if you're ever in the state of Washington, go up into the Olympic National Park only in good weather, because there's no point in going up into the into the mountains if you can't see anything. But if if there is good weather, head on up to obstruction point. And if you have some ADV tires, head on the gravel road.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:20

Nice. Good suggestion. Let's hopefully get see if uh Brian comes back with some footage. Um, hey, you know, we hit a couple of these errands rideouts locations when we were in the UK. I think you did one more additionally as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:33

Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. We went to the super sausage cafeteria, which Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:40

That's the one when you first mentioned that to me on the podcast, and I laughed for 30 seconds before I could compose myself. And then I was like, is that a joke? And you're like, no, it's a real thing. We went there.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:51

Yeah, we went there, and then you and I went to Caffeine and Machine. We went to, I think, the hut, and I went to another caffeine and a machine, and I think I went to a few. Oh, yeah, and I went to um bike shed when I was in London. So it was cool to reconnect with those fine folks at the bike shed and crush a couple of pints and watching some bikes roll through the cafe.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:13

What do you say? We jump over to a little bit of ADV cannonball news.

Baja Edition Moves Back To USA

SPEAKER_07 1:32:17

Well, let's try, but you have to be able to hear the construction going on here here in my apartment. But you can't hear it? I can't hear nothing. Oh my god, it's so loud.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:26

So, anyways, I can just all I got is your velvety, your velvety pipes. The dulcet tones. The dulcet tones.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:33

So we announced it that we are moving the 2027 Baja edition back to the US. So how this all started was that we put up a survey on the Facebook group and the and the closed group. We said, well, who would want to go do this, right? So I felt really encouraged about what was happening with the event. And everyone's like, yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it, but nobody really, you know, ponied up the money and registered. We had some registrations, but it was time for me to schedule my fall schedule. And I needed to commit the time and the money to go scout that. And there was a lot of extra money involved, and it just wasn't there. So I moved 2027 rally back into the US, and we've kind of come to the conclusion. And you and I discussed this uh ad nauseum when we were in Europe, and forever there will always be a core event, and that core event will annually be a coast to coast in the USA as it's supposed to be. We may have other events like uh X events, and we'll always have a Europe event, but we will always have a core American coast to coast ADV Cannonball rally.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:45

So let's talk a little bit about the details here. Now I'm gonna run through kind of what this rally is gonna look like. Is that gonna you're gonna be okay with that?

SPEAKER_07 1:33:52

Yeah, let's do it because you know my fluency is like a fifth grader. But uh, for the last seven days, I've been working 24 hours today on this. I'm almost finished, and I should uh I should announce it in a few weeks. But if you don't mind reading through the bullet points I have here.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:07

I will nail it. Here we go. So

2027 Portland To Portland Route Reveal

SPEAKER_06 1:34:10

the 2027 America's ADB Cannonball Rally is going to be from Portland to Portland. That's very, very, very clever. I like that. Uh so that's the theme. 4,000 plus miles, nine days coast to coast, as they all are, coast to coast, from Portland, Maine to Portland, Oregon. And for those of you who want the full story, we actually finish right on the Pacific Coast in Astoria, Washington. But Portland to Portland, that's what this is all about. We are tentatively kicking off on June 17th, and because of the high latitudes, we'll be riding through. We are looking at a bit more than 15 hours of daylight every single day, which is precisely what you need for those miles I'm about to lay into here. And that's a lot of riding time. As this is the truest sense of what the ADV cannonball should be, right out of the gate on day one, you're hitting twisty paved mountain roads and potentially really muddy off-road trails. Then on day two, you're straight into a massive interstate highway miles. We I think we call those slab days, Aaron.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:21

That's what they say.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:23

Slab days. And that theme actually never lets up. Throughout this rally, you'll encounter uh flat, fast off-road sections and then mountainous, gravity-defying uh babyhead, I hate baby heads, babyhead rock sections in Washington and Oregon, all the way coast to coast. It is a cruel test of rider M machine from start to finish. Or if you choose, you can stay on the paved backbone the whole way. That option is always there. This rally meets you where you are.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:54

It's a little bit different than previous years because I've always saved the off-road portions for a set for like the last half. And this year, because we're in Maine, you just mentioned it, that there's off-road peppered throughout. Granted, in Washington, Oregon, there's some awesome gravelly baby head stuff through the mountains there. But in Maine, right away, you know, when you're talking about choosing machine and choosing tires, I'm like, people are gonna be cursing my name because on day one, you could be in the mud. And in day, you know, you're gonna be talking about it in the middle. There's like gravelly, dry off-roading. And then at the end, you got more off-roading. Plus, you have slab days in the middle. So this is really going to be, you know, a big test.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:40

I just want to take one moment and have a bit of a deviation here and reflect back on Carrie's podcast that he just ran. We talked about the newbie guys and what their plans were. And he asked questions about what people's tire choices were going to be, considering the terrain for this 2026 rally leaving Massachusetts and ending in California. And what was really interesting is that Kerry withheld the strategy which he had previously shared about his his tire strategy. So he asked everybody else theirs, but he never revealed his own. I just made a note of that and I wanted to I wanted to call him out on it right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:18

And you know, that was my motivation for doing that. I'm like, I see what you guys are doing, and now I'm gonna make it more difficult for you guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:26

So the uh the basically nobody should actually tell you what the strategy is because you'll take the information and and make it more difficult. Ooh, they found a megawave way to make it easier.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:37

What's that? You want to make it easier? I'm gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:40

I can fix this. I'm I'm on it. I'm gonna stay up late tonight and fix that for you.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:44

That's right. And even worse, because in Maine, I hope it rains because there's a section that says like it's in a it's in a swamp essentially. So if it's dry, it'll be okay. But imagine trying to choose tires, right? I have a 600-mile slab day one day, I got a mud day the next day, and then I got baby heads in gravel. I'm like, what tires do you do you choose, right? It's gonna be fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:08

And that goes to this. So that ties into this comment. So day one, kicking things off with some serious terrain. We're talking about the Appalachian Mountains, the Adirondack's off-road section through the Dead Creek primitive area, and a stretch of the Adirondack's BDRX, sort of the small section of it. A proper start. Day two gives riders a choice. You can take the maple route, which sweeps up through Canada, pick up some maple syrup, goes through Prince Edward County and to uh and Toronto before rejoining the group at the hotel in Toledo. Or you can take the low road, a fun highway day, and both options come in around the same mileage, roughly around 500 miles.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:52

Yeah, and of course, because it's going through Canada, I'm gonna put you through Prince Edward County where where I grew up, where I used to DJ, and of course, you stop at Tim Hortons, and I will put a temporary rule in only for that day. Whatever route you take, whether you stay in the US or you stay in Canada, you can only get those checkpoints. Because let's not have any crazy cannonballers saying, I'm gonna get all of them and just stay out for 24 hours. So everyone relax. If you take the northern route or southern route, you can only get those checkpoints. And by the way, the checkpoints will be equal. So there will be no checkpoint advantage to take the northern or southern route. It'll just be, you know, dealer's choice.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:33

Dealer's choice. I like that. Day three is an unavoidable 585-mile highway day, which is actually shorter by 115 miles than the slab day through the US in the first 2025 cannibal.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:53

Yeah, it was like 750 miles was the longest day. Yeah. It was 108.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:58

This is 180 miles less. Yeah, that's a lot. So America's geography does demand this, but we uh we shall embrace it and roll on. Day four is a big one. We hit the Black Hills, Mount Rushmore, the town of Keystone, and the legendary Needles Highway on Route 16A. And for those chasing extreme checkpoints, there is an optional extreme checkpoint out into the Badlands. We overnight in Custer, historic old West town with plenty of character. Aaron, I'm really hoping there's some old West bars there, like you know, the saloon style, you push the doors open, everyone pauses and looks at you, and then goes back to playing cars, and then then the music starts.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:40

I actually will post right now when we get off the the air here, I'll post a picture of me and my motorcycle in front of one of the recommended places on the schedule, and it is decidedly exactly as as you're describing. Nice, we will be there.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:56

There are optional dirt roads and off-road checkpoints through this section. And for those who seek a bit more adventure, as if you didn't already have enough adventure earlier that day, there are more off-road checkpoints. Day five in the morning, do not sleep in. Pro tip. Do not sleep in because there are some iconic tunnels with sunrise views that are absolutely worth setting the alarm for. Then we push into the afternoon with Beartooth Pass, Yellowstone's Grand Loop Road, before pulling into Bozeman for the night. Day six, we ride America's Lost Highway, Montana 43, and then carve through a Majestic Valley on US 12, one of the great motorcycle roads in this country. Riders Hayes and the ADD line can tackle the optional low low trail in Idaho. Day seven takes us into Washington backcountry with checkpoints along Washington backcountry discovery route. And those hunting extreme checkpoints, they are out there if you want them. Day eight is a full day in Washington and Oregon. The paved route takes you past Mount Rainier and Mount St. Helens through the high passes, including the historic Lewitt Pass. The ADV route is a full-on trail day passing Mount Adams before dropping into Portland. And day nine, we finish in Astoria, Washington, right on the Pacific Coast. More details on that on the final day coming soon. We're happy to announce that 75 discounted hotel rooms from our partners every night and three more backup hotels we have organized at each location are either in the same parking lot across the street or very close by. We put a lot for a lot of effort into expanding the capacity of this rally in an organized way, and it definitely shows. Each night there is also a recommended hangout spot so the group can come together if you choose to.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:07

Crush a fistful of Adderall. I mean not Adderall. Uh sorry. Wrong trip. Uh wrong trip, wrong trip, wrong trip. I meant to say aspirin.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:21

And the awards banquet, we're going a little over the top this year in the best way possible. So can you ex come on? You can't just drop that cliffhanger and not give a bit more detail.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:32

Well, it's funny because you can see the description doesn't have a lot on the last day. So I'm actually working on that today, but it's difficult because it's Friday. So I'm pretty sure we'll end in an Astoria. And I think I have a really cool location that we can have our um awards banquet. The one for this year's going to be okay. It's it's in the hotel, but it's not going to be over the top. Plus, I have no money. So, but I'm hoping in 2027 we can push the envelope a bit and make it a little more gumball rather than you know, rally. Cool. I like that. You did that for me, didn't you? Absolutely. Because I know you're just you are crushing fistfuls of Adderall partying all night. That's so you, Taylor.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:16

That's that's that's right at my that's right at my Straza, baby.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:19

Hey, oh which actually what's funny is that the hotel in Leavenworth, we were so lucky for 2027. We're actually stopping in Leavenworth and all the streets are named Straza. It's funny you think that's very strange you said that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:37

So it seems like all the work that you put in here is shaping up to be something that's quite special. And we expect to have an official announcement sometime out in mid-June 2026. Is that still accurate?

SPEAKER_07 1:44:48

Yeah, basically next week. So if you're listening to this when it drops, uh I'll be able to um publish it next week. I just got to get all the ducks. It was hard to negotiate with all the hotels, and we can't always stay in the Hilton Hotel this year because of the new policy of having clusters of hotels just so we can expand the expand the group. And this

Classes Limits Signups And Next Guests

SPEAKER_07 1:45:09

year we're gonna implement the pro class and mile crusher class. So we're gonna have 59 pro class, it will be limited to, and we'll be limited to 59 mile crusher class. And we will obviously expand on that as the years go on. I just we'll do it slowly to avoid people whining and things going wrong. So that's the the limits I've I've placed. But it will always be 59 in the in the pro class. So if you're ever looking to sign up for one of our rallies, make sure you get in early because uh pro class will always be limited to 59.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:42

And it always fills up first, as we know.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:44

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:46

Let's talk about some new signups.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:48

Yeah, so 2026, uh, we let a few more come in who were okay with the mouth crusher class, and they were able to find hotels nearby. So uh so yeah, if you don't mind reading, reading who signed up.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:02

You got it. Greg from Oakley, Utah on his Ducati V4 rally, Steve Woolley from Farmington, Utah on his 1200 GSA from Team Midlife Arc. I like that.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:18

Yeah, nice. And let's talk about what's coming up in the next episodes. We got Lois Price, and we recorded with her live in Windsor. Lois is the author of Lois on the Loose and many other books. We're gonna be focusing on her book about Iran, and uh it's a really you know in-depth interview, and we don't we don't bob and weave any any difficult topics.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:41

Yeah, it's nice. I mean, it was kind of cool. It's 2013. She went back in 2014. The book came out in 2017, and um yeah, it was a fun interview, like it was it was super lively and bubbly. I look forward to um doing uh doing bumpers on that one. That was fun. Yeah, I gotta edit that. I'll get on it. Get on, get on that, Aaron. What have you been doing? Oh, wait a minute. I just I just read what you've been doing. Um and then we also gonna do the um in the next episode, we'll talk about the Dutch Minion and her bike. And that is kind of cool because um we had a chance to meet her when we we mentioned her in the last podcast, but we when Aaron and I we met in Denmark, I rode in from Sweden. He had just finishing, he just finished doing the 2027 rally backwards. We met in Denmark and then rode down. And before we we um we got on the ferry to go from uh the Hook of Holland over to England to Haric. We got that right now. We got so many, so many people beat us up, Harech. So we got just so beaten down by them, by the by the by the local UK people.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:40

Yeah, and there's like a hundred thousand views on that Instagram post on that ferry where I don't sit right, and then I everyone ragged on me for not tying down my bike the way some weenie wanted me to do. You're gonna wreck your seat. I'm like stop being a freaking weenie, bro. But, anyways, it went viral, which is hilarious, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:47:59

You said herit wrong. I remember sitting across the table from you, and I was like, what can I put in here that's really controversial? That's like such super controversial, so that we can just keep it getting. I don't know. I put stuff in and never really got much in the way of like they were just doing it all by themselves. They kind of got it rolling. It's pretty funny. Anyway, back to Dutch Minion and her bike. Um, she was awesome in the senses. She set up the so that the 2027 European Cannibal, she did the waypoints through the the waypoints, she did the checkpoints through the Netherlands. And then when we rode with her, she took us out on some of the stuff. And I tell you what, it was like doing flat track on the top of these dikes. And I had I just had a hard time keeping up with her. She can ride, man. She just drops that bike in those corners and just gets on it. Anyway, it was fun riding with her, super fun. And uh shortly after we did that, Aaron got a chance to do some service on his BMW.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:55

Yeah, well, we had a couple hours, so we we rolled into her friend's shop or warehouse, and I'm like, I got a couple hours, you do the interview, and I'm gonna change these front brake pads. So it was awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:06

It was good timing on that. And so nice, so accommodating. They just took care of us. And then I also, when I left, I went around the UK with you, and then on the way back, she was it was the following weekend, and she was running a checkpoint, not a checkpoint rally, but like she puts a bunch of checkpoints out, and they're all sort of concentric around one particular location. I guess that's what concentric means, but nonetheless, you go out and you pick up as many checkpoints as you can, and the only rule is well, there's several rules, you can do on-road, off-road, and you gotta be back by six o'clock in order to make sure that you've gotten the most checkpoints, and there's an award for it. So anyway, she invited me in to camp there that Friday night, and then that Saturday morning I got up, hung out, everyone left, and then I packed up slowly and then made my way to the ferry in uh Triva Monday in Germany, and then blasted over to um to Sweden, and that was my last. Last day riding home, which is beautiful.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:02

Yeah, that was an awesome trip, man. And uh speaking of road trips, I just saw on the Book of Faces right now that speaking of Carrie, he just posted a picture on the Cannonball group that he's with Hunter. Hunter Ray, the winner of last year's Cannonball, and they're hanging out in his garage next to that uh GS950 GSA, though shout out to you guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:23

Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, that's the bike that uh Hunter let me ride around after the rally when I flew out towards the end of that rally.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:31

Yeah, you know, I haven't asked those guys yet, but someone needs to pony up a bike for Robert because I hate canceling or moving the Baja rally because now I have this goddamn Cove 450 that I've been spending time and money building, and I really have no use for it because Robert was gonna come over from Sweden and ride it in the Baja rally, but it's really not the right machine for the Americas rally. It'd be it'd be funny to see him suffer, but I don't think that's that's very nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:02

Robert would not appreciate it.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:04

No, no, no.

Finding A Bike And Wrapping Up

SPEAKER_06 1:51:06

Hey, speaking of Robert, I got a message from him yesterday. We were having a chat, and um he just left and he's on the way over to Pakistan to do the other side of the Himalayas from what we were looking into when we were in India.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:20

Yeah, that was really awesome. So people are are crushing themselves mouth, you know, all over the world, and we're looking forward to having back in 2077 on this side of the pond.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:30

I got one word for you about that uh that COVID 450.

SPEAKER_07 1:51:37

Well, we're gonna well, yeah. We're gonna use it this year. We're gonna throw it in the back of the van. And I may even throw it in the back of the van when I do this cannonball attempt. Um but you know, we'll see if there's enough time for for having any fun. But for sure we're gonna use it, but I just wouldn't have put so much damn money into setting it up for navigation and and things like that for Robert. So anyways, I will I will find a home for it or we'll just keep it around and we'll uh we'll basically use it as a as a glorified air bike.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:09

Yeah. I'm really looking forward to riding it up, watching, like, you know, having a nice, you know, really fun dancing across all these baby heads to get up to a really difficult extreme checkpoint and then parking it and waiting for people to do the same thing on these uh heavy GSs and these tigers and these G7s.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:28

Yeah, it's not fair because when you're done, you're gonna put in the back of the van, you're gonna crack a beer, and we're gonna ride, you know, ride the van over to the next hotel. It's really not fair, but it will be funny to make, you know, to come on guys, come up the hill. What's your problem?

SPEAKER_06 1:52:40

Yeah, but I I think that I think the joke's gonna be on us at the end of the day because these guys will have had that experience on their machines. Either way, it'll still be fun. There'll be great beers and great conversation.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:48

Absolutely, absolutely. Uh we need to find a bike for for Robert, so we have we have a whole year to work it out. Yeah. So anybody has an extra bike, you know. You want Robert to abuse it.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:58

Wanna be a full feature movie done on your machine and a great thanks to you, then this might be the opportunity.

SPEAKER_07 1:53:04

To use it. I mean abuse it, I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:09

As you do. And this week's music is Till the Nine Worlds Fall. And with that, let's roll the outro.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:36

Woke up in the fjord, mist, frost upon my crown. Got four shadows riding sittin' on my bones Ode's raving, screaming, circling overhead. My handlebars are shaking from the weight of all the dead. I didn't ask for passengers, no, I ride along But a Ragnarok chose my harley as its throw spin on my back, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:16

Riding through the northern black, yeah Conquest war and found two Hell death sky stones around you Till the nine worlds fall Stealin' bone through the endless snow Where the midnight sun don't go Valhalla's gates are rested shut And my engines running on blood and stoop Past the village burning didn't stop to stare Famine's fingers tapping tangled in my hair War keeps kicking my throttle Wants to go too fast Conquest reads or rude maps to the world that will not last They whisper in the old tongue Words I shouldn't know The serpent's waking brother Let the back throws burst on the back yeah The stuff is colour But the Nine World Spin on my back Riding through the northern Black Conquest War and Famine Two Build this got his arms around you building world two wheels green street stream the stunner in my chest is great all the tests learned till the Nine World Fall Smashing a five-star review really helps the podcast and satisfies the algorithm gods all hell the algorithm gods a special thanks to our Patreon supporters you're keeping this sinking ship afloat.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:44

Thanks for listening to the ADV Cannonball Podcast. Keep your right hand cranked and your feet on the pegs!